Defending your Family, Property, Rights

[ZooFuzz]

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8009719
Gaston beating victim's husband shot niece, nephew
GASTON, SC (WIS) - Carrie Turner says her sister's kids were after drug money when they almost beat her to death. That's when her husband started shooting.




If these had been my kin and they tried to hurt my family, I would have shot them too.

[ZooFuzz]

http://www.scfirearms.org/
http://www.nraila.org/images/obamachange.jpg

http://www.morebans.org/

Obama's gun lies
MORE NEWS (http://www.gunbanobama.com/Default.aspx?NavGuid=c4ad6927-29a0-40df-bdb1-a409a27c28b5)
4/20/2009 - When it comes to guns, President Obama is lying through his teeth. It is completely untrue that 90 percent of guns recovered in Mexico are from America. The Mexican government separates guns it confiscates that were made in the United States and sends them here to be traced. U.S. weapons are easy to identify because of clear markings.

Read About It: The Washington Times (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/20/obamas-gun-lies/)
http://www.gunbanobama.com/


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2054192/posts

http://www.scfirearms.org/images/bumpersticker3.jpg (http://www.scfirearms.org/Store/bumper.htm)

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPrint.asp?cmd=view&articleid=641

http://www.sccwpclasses.com/9001.html




Regardless if you're black, white, yellow, or red, obama is going to control your rights to the 2nd Amendment. He can't change the Amendment, but he can manuver around it, increase on taxes, on yeah you can own your guns, but obama will find or invent a way that will make it so that you can't afford to shoot it. All of this on the law abiding folk, the criminals are not included, they are going to steal what they want and shoot you if you get in the way. I see people everyday that are starting to have their doubts about who they voted for, but now it's too late, what's done is done.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f54/obamas-10-point-plan-ban-guns-828952/

[I'mJustMe]

I'm Just Me......a proud member of the NRA. sorry, Mr. President. :w00t:

[Ditch Doctor]

If you guys ever had to treat a child that had been shot and watch them die in the trauma room at the ER, you'd rethink the NRA's ideals of "Free guns for everyone".

[JDidGirl]

If you guys ever had to treat a child that had been shot and watch them die in the trauma room at the ER, you'd rethink the NRA's ideals of "Free guns for everyone".

No, I don't think so. That's not an gun control issue... that's an issue of parents not teaching their children how to handle firearms responsibly and respectfully or not keeping them out of reach of children. That's a parental issue... not a gun control issue. Or... an issue of thuggish gang-bangers... young thugs shooting other thugs.

[swampfox]

So do you believe that there is no connection between the fact that, among nations that actually have governments and are not at war within their own borders, guns are easier to get here than anywhere else, AND the fact that we have more violent crime than any other country in the world (same circumstances as above)?

That would be one heck of a coincidence.

The last time I saw a study of violent crime in different countries, we were not only number one, we had FIVE TIMES as much as the second highest.

And of course it's a matter of raising, at least a lot of the time, and there are violence-prone cultures in other countries of laws, but how do you get into the homes to tell people who may be irresponsible that they are not doing right by their children. And it may be too late to do anything about the thugs, unless we were to go to my suggestion of life without parole for pretty much any violent crime (taking into account priors and the seriousness of what happened).

People have different definitions of what prison is supposed to be about. It doesn't work as punishment. It is certainly a poor choice for revenge. And for violent crimes rehabilitation (there's usually no "re" about it, call it "habilitation") it almost never works. The whole point is to separate dangerous individuals from the rest of society, and it should be permanent.

And if we'd just quit putting people in jail for simple possession there would be plenty of room for the thugs.

[swampfox]

There is an excellent French movie called Hate (La Haine) that shows a time of much racial and criminal violence in Paris (1990s) where guns are not so easy to get. In fact the story revolves around the unlikely acquisition by one character of a police pistol during a riot. If you don't mind reading subtitles (or if you understand French) I would recommend this one to help in understanding just what our problems are.

[Captain Worley]

If you guys ever had to treat a child that had been shot and watch them die in the trauma room at the ER, you'd rethink the NRA's ideals of "Free guns for everyone".

Do you rethink your position on automobiles when you see a child in the trauma room because of an accident?

Do you rethink your position on two story houses when you see a child in the trauma room from falling down the steps?

[BTDT]

This is a weapon, let's sue the manafacturer(sp):
A hammer, saw, nails, shovel, hoe, pitchfork, rope, pick-ax, axe, tractor, lawnmower, crowbar, farm truck, any make of car, truck, motorcycle, SUV, heavy road equipment, food, man, woman, boy-child, girl-child, teenage girl, teenage boy, dogs, large animals, snakes, insects, air or lack of, water or lack of, rocks, earth, weather, knives.....etc. These items kill more people that projectile fired weapons.


Gun Deaths - International Comparisons


Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
HomicideSuicideOther (inc Accident) USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07Switzerland (1998)0.50 5.8 0.10Canada (2002)0.42.0 0.04Finland (2003)0.354.450.10Australia (2001)0.24 1.34 0.10France (2001)0.213.4 0.49England/Wales (2002)0.150.2 0.03Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.20.02Japan (2002) 0.020.040Data taken from Cukier and Sidel (2006) The Global Gun Epidemic. Praeger Security International. Westport.

> See More Data (http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF10.htm)


http://www.americanfirearms.org/facts.php
http://www.americanfirearms.org/images/chart_death-types.gif

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/s703a1t25.gif

[swampfox]

I had to rethink my position on sinkholes. Man, those things can swallow up houses in no time.

[Captain Worley]

http://i41.tinypic.com/14vh2li.jpg

[Ditch Doctor]

Do you rethink your position on automobiles when you see a child in the trauma room because of an accident?

Do you rethink your position on two story houses when you see a child in the trauma room from falling down the steps?

Although they are not accidents per say, I haven't seen many intentional MVC's in my 20 year career. And I know I have never seen anyone pick up a flight of stairs and kill anyone.

Children get killed everyday by adults with guns! That is a fact. Like the song says, "They ain't good for nothin', but put a man six feet in a hole!"

[Ditch Doctor]

No, I don't think so. That's not an gun control issue... that's an issue of parents not teaching their children how to handle firearms responsibly and respectfully or not keeping them out of reach of children. That's a parental issue... not a gun control issue. Or... an issue of thuggish gang-bangers... young thugs shooting other thugs.

The majority of suicides have also been commited with a Gun! It makes it too easy. If you've never seen a 14 year old with the top of his head blown off and brain matter covering the ceiling, posters, trophies etc....then your reasoning comes from ignorance.

[Captain Worley]

Although they are not accidents per say, I haven't seen many intentional MVC's in my 20 year career. And I know I have never seen anyone pick up a flight of stairs and kill anyone.

Children get killed everyday by adults with guns! That is a fact. Like the song says, "They ain't good for nothin', but put a man six feet in a hole!"

Dead's dead, no matter what the method.


The majority of suicides have also been commited with a Gun! It makes it too easy. If you've never seen a 14 year old with the top of his head blown off and brain matter covering the ceiling, posters, trophies etc....then your reasoning comes from ignorance.

So because depressed teenagers kill themselves with guns, guns are bad? They kill them selves lots of other ways (vehicle crashes once again), intentional or not.

[JDidGirl]

The majority of suicides have also been commited with a Gun! It makes it too easy. If you've never seen a 14 year old with the top of his head blown off and brain matter covering the ceiling, posters, trophies etc....then your reasoning comes from ignorance.

Ignorance truly is in the eye of the beholder. You feel one way... and I feel another way. I'm not insulting your opinion... I'm merely disagreeing. You seem to have an issue with that. Where's the ignorance now?

Look, parents/homeowners need to take some (a lot actually) of the responsibility. STOP making it so easy for guns in the home to be found and used by youngsters. You can't fix stupid if stupid refuses to be fixed so if people are going to behave irresponsibly then, yeah, you are going to have problems. But, come on... let's not kid ourselves either. If a kid is determined to take his/her own life then, gun or no gun, they will find a way. Hey... that's why parents are cautioned to keep medication away from kids as well. Whether their head is blown off or not (sorry for the graphic comment) or whether the kid takes a bottle of pills... dead is still very much dead.

My parents kept guns in the house, but my father made darn sure that we knew not only how to handle them, but also how dangerous they could be and that they should be treated with respect AT ALL TIMES. He took us out many times and had us target practice at trees (we lived on a large piece of property in the "country") and would show us the damage that one bullet could do and would tell us to take into consideration how much damage was done to that hard tree and then explain what would happen if that same bullet had been used on a person. He was pretty graphic about it, but I tell you... he instilled in me respect for weapons and we never had a problem in our home. That doesn't happen enough today. If you own a gun and have small children then the guns should be kept in a locked gun safe. Again... responsibility should play a huge role here.

Still... guns do not kill people... poeple kill people by using guns. Guns do not cause people to commit suicide... people use guns to kill themselves. Ignorance is not teaching children (and adults for that matter) to have respect for guns.

[BTDT]

The majority of suicides have also been commited with a Gun! It makes it too easy. If you've never seen a 14 year old with the top of his head blown off and brain matter covering the ceiling, posters, trophies etc....then your reasoning comes from ignorance.


If you'll check a good number of children are killed playing "The Choking Game", this is a form of unintentional suicide. Then alcohol, drugs, rope, knives, razor blades, poison (usually in household products) more later.

[swampfox]

I never did get an answer to my question. Does anybody suppose that there is NO connection between the fact that we have far more violent crime here than any other country and the fact that guns are relatively very easy to get here.

No connection at all?

And I don't think that some folks know just HOW easy it is to get one. I used to hear my students talking about it. It's not just the gang-bangers that buy from a guy who comes around pretty often and has any kind of gun you want in the trunk of his car, and he doesn't run checks and he doesn't care how old you are.

I have heard students say, in person as well as in the media, that they armed themselves for protection. The parents were never consulted, and the parents usually don't know just how bad are the situations that their kids face in the communities and in school. Good raising might have prevented this, but do we want to deal with the real world or some world that we imagine?

If I had any question about raising, my question would be how it relates to the epidemice of suicide among our young people, not about the frakkin' guns.

[JDidGirl]

I don't think anyone disagrees with your reasoning, Swampy. I don't. However, I do think that a lot of the responsiblity falls to the parents or the gun owners for not teaching their children better and for making their personal handguns (and rifles) easily accessible to their children. It's common sense and people these days obviously feel like they don't have time to use a little common sense. Also... it is all about how a child is raised - the area... what they see... what they've grown up around. Yeah, if a gun is accessible to some of these kids then they are probably going to use it, but... again... goes back to my point. Gun education & responsibility.

[swampfox]

But again that's looking at things the way they should be. It's very different from how things really are.

I got gun education growing up. I had to learn how to hunt, which I don't mind saying I was very good at. But I lost interest.

An awful lot of what we do as adolescents/teenagers has to do with maximizing dating potential. If we thought the girls liked the Beatles, then we liked the Beatles. Only later finding out how great they really were.

Of course a lot of us took up playing guitar in part for the same reason, though most didn't stick with it. I did. I used to take my guitar to school sometimes. It was like a golden key.

[JDidGirl]

We've just gone from guns to guitars...

[JDidGirl]

Well, see... in response to, well, your response... yeah... that's the way it should be and the way people need to try and gravitate back to. If it worked before then maybe (duh) it could... oh, I don't know... work again????

[swampfox]

But we're talking about social engineering, which I think most of us agree works about as often as head-transplant surgery.

[JDidGirl]

But we're talking about social engineering, which I think most of us agree works about as often as head-transplant surgery.

Because it is never followed through on... not because it just doesn't work. We've been discussing theories regarding what would work. If you went by everything that people are just too lazy to do, well, you shut the door on everything.

[swampfox]

Maybe this will be the time.

I've seen so many children, and a lot of their families, for whom the game was over before it started.

Too many stories to tell. One of the ones that I think about most days was a ninth grader, a white kid if anybody cares, who flat refused to ever even try to participate in class or do any assignment. After a while, after being unable to contact his parents, I talked with his guidance counselor. The kid was living in a box in the woods, taking showers and eating at friends' homes as he could. His mother was a crack ho who had run off with her puff daddy. His father was a drunk who had beat him and his mother as long as he could remember. He was just waiting until he was old enough to drop out.

What could we do for a family like that regarding the benefits of parenting.

And believe me it gets much worse than that one.

Not long before Dr. King was killed he became heavily depressed. He had just started working in more northern cities, notably Chicago and Detroit, and the somewhat more northerly city of Memphis where he was murdered. He confided in his confidants that he had become convinced that the goal to which he had dedicated his life, equality for all, would require a "social revolution" (NOT the idiotic political and even violent revolutions being so casually talked about today) unlike any the world had ever seen, and he didn't expect to see it suddenly happening then.

There is just so much you can do, and you have to deal with what's on the table. I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, but what the heck could I, as a front-line teacher (the classic locus of social engineering) do with that kid who was sleeping in the woods? And who in heck did I think I was, insisting that he take up an interest in physical science?

I have guns. I have a shotgun and a rifle and a handgun. They are all legal and I will register the handgun as soon as I get around to taking the shooting course and maybe the CWP. (I inherited this one from my father, but just got it recently.) Nobody is going to take those guns. And I would use them if needed to protect myself and my family. But they are not a big part of my life.

I don't go to da clubs. My neighborhood is a pretty safe one. The deputies in this area are very good. I am lucky. A friend of mine last year used every resource she had to move out of the neighborhood where she was living where she could not protect her children from the influences that were all around. She and her husband are excellent parents and they did everything they could, but their youngest kid has already been in the Marine Institute and seems to be headed for worse than that. Brilliant kid. I tutored him when he was a young teenager.

The family has everything to do with the way a child is raised for the first few years, but along about age four or five people outside the family necessarily become a part of his/her life. That is just human nature. Has been since our ancestors were hunting and gathering. We are social creatures. If the community is toxic the parents can bust their behinds every day and still lose.

If I had a kid to raise today I would move somewhere very remote.

[Captain Worley]

Lots of folks moving to Wyoming and Idaho.

[swampfox]

I haven't been to either of those, but those are the kind of places I'm talking about. I've been in Maine several times. The northern half of the state (above Freeport) is pretty remote. It's a shame that they all have to be cold.

Canada is another option. I've seen some places in Quebec that were very attractive. I would just want to be where the kid would be as insulated as possible from this crazy culture we've created for ourselves.

[Captain Worley]

Belize.

[swampfox]

I had a friend several years ago who talked about moving to Belize. She was saying that it would be a good choice for her because she speaks French, which she doesn't. It did no good when I reminded her that Belize used to be called British Honduras. She moved to North Carolina instead.