Ecstacy and meth - this is scary

[swampfox]

This report today on CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/20/meth.ecstasy/index.html

Apparently pills combining MDMA, or ecstacy, with methamphetamine are being easily smuggled across the border from Canada, believe it or not. Either of these substances can cause permanent organ damage, sometimes with just one use, and together they can be deadly. Overdoses are not uncommon as the first dose lowers inhibitions about taking another.

Neither of these substances is the least bit difficult to get around here and young people, teenagers included, are in the targeted market.

[JDidGirl]

You know, back when I was younger (in high school) we didn't have worries like this. Oh, sure we had bad drugs, but we didn't have the meth scares, the X issues and such. The most our parents had to worry about was whether we were out drinking with our friends or smoking pot (and back then that was the big scare). Now is a scary time for a parent. You never have a clue what is being "created" from day to day to offer that next new high and whether your child is going to want to try it out. All parents can do is educate their children and pray they do what is right... or, be like mine and put the absolute fear of God in them and threaten to make them wish they were dead if they did something they shouldn't be doing.

[swampfox]

When it comes to the really dangerous drugs (cocaine, heroin, meth, X) the kids know what they are doing. They know what an overdose is. So using these drugs is a suicide attempt and they know it. That should be the scary part for parents. But you would be amazed at how many parents are using the same drugs at home.

Parents, wake up! If your kid is using these drugs it represents a fairly serious attempt at suicide! You better find out what about your kid's life is so bad that he/she is looking for the ultimate way out.

[pot is scary enough]

You know, back when I was younger (in high school) we didn't have worries like this..... The most our parents had to worry about was whether we were out drinking with our friends or smoking pot (and back then that was the big scare)..... All parents can do is educate their children and pray they do what is right... or, be like mine and put the absolute fear of God in them and threaten to make them wish they were dead if they did something they shouldn't be doing.

The fact that most of our generation has smoked pot and now raises children and tell war stories of how high they got or just saying that they smoked pot glorifies it in our kids eyes. My step daughter's piece of crap father says he is going to teach her how to roll a joint when she turns 16. Is this any way to teach our kids? I never smoked weed... my dad was a deputy and scared the devil out of me about even going near the stuff. I try to do the same with my kids. IT IS A GATEWAY DRUG!!! Most that try cocaine, crack, heroin, etc., tried weed first. Plus today you have to worry about dealers lacing with something else. I used to smoke cigarettes, that was bad enough. When my kids ask about smoking, I tell them it is something that no one should do. I even told them this before I quit, hoping that they never even try 1 cigarette.

[swampfox]

True, but I just have to add that it's important not to lie about the pot either (not saying you did). For generations we or somebody on our behalf told outrageous stories about what pot would do to you that the kids already knew were not true so naturally they didn't believe whatever else we told them about drugs and probably other things.

And while pot may be for some a gateway drug to cocaine, etc (just as cigarettes are nearly always the gateway drug to pot) there have always been lots of people who did not go on to the more dangerous drugs. This fact made the War on Drugs that Reagan started even more of a disaster than it was in general (because it didn't work). The street price of marijuana, since it is relatively difficult to smuggle, went several times higher than it had been, while cocaine and heroin, in constant dollars (not adjusting for inflation), are cheaper and more potent now than they were before. This made the more dangerous drugs even more likely to be used by the kids who used drugs at all.

This fight against drugs will never be won completely. We only have to look at the prohibition of alcohol (1919 to 1931) to see that Americans with no criminal tendencies would go to great lengths to buy illegal alcohol. For example this was the time during which Cuba became such a hot vacation destination. (One popular song that I know from that period, called "I'll See You in C-U-B-A" has lines like "Cuba, where wine is flowing" and "I've never been a drinking lady...but now I want to be where all is gay"**, etc.) Prohibition was such a lost cause that Congress felt that they had to repeal it in 1931 because all that had been accomplished was making the bootleggers, significantly the Mafia, rich, similar to the situation today.

So we should have learned that the only way to deal effectively with the drug problem is to declare it to be a public health problem, not a criminal one. The alcohol issue aside, look at the incredible success of the health education efforts about cigarettes that started in 1963 with the Surgeon General's first warnings about their effect on health. At that time over two-thirds of American adults smoked (up from very few before World War I when the tobacco companies sent free cigarettes to US soldiers overseas, repeated in World War II). By the mid-90s it was down to less than one-third and now it's approaching one-fourth. In terms of public health education that is an amazing success.

So, I see your points, but I also know that it is very easy to fail in getting the message across if we go about it the wrong way. Never in the history of any free country has anything been made to disappear just by making it illegal. Not if there were people who wanted it.




**original meaning of gay - happy and carefree

[Captain Worley]

And I don't think hiding cold medicine behind the counters and making people show ID to get it is really stopping meth makers (do you hear me CVS?).

[cuebald]

When it comes to the really dangerous drugs (cocaine, heroin, meth, X) the kids know what they are doing. They know what an overdose is. So using these drugs is a suicide attempt and they know it. That should be the scary part for parents. But you would be amazed at how many parents are using the same drugs at home.

Parents, wake up! If your kid is using these drugs it represents a fairly serious attempt at suicide! You better find out what about your kid's life is so bad that he/she is looking for the ultimate way out.

We got confirmation this morning that my son's best friend ODed on heroin yesterday and died. He was 22. All of his friends thought he had stopped using, but obviously not. Another friend found him yesterday afternoon.

He knew what he was doing and knew the risks from what I'm told. We don't know all the details and they don't really matter. This kid was at my house Tuesday evening, Wednesday my son saw him at a mutual friend's house, Thursday he was simply gone.

It's Friday and I feel like my heart and lungs have been cut out with a dull knife. All of the boy's friends are worse than that. They will be zombies for a few days.

I have been crying all day. I'll post again when I know more.

Send the kids some good thoughts if you have any to spare.

[swampfox]

I am so sorry to hear that. The closest I've come to that was one of my Czech nephews had a friend who was addicted to heroin years ago. Despite my pleas to get him into a medical program my nephew thought that if he and his friends could just take the boy camping and show him the genuine concern that they felt for him that it would fix things up, which it seemed to, by appearances, for a few days. The kid ended up dead.

I will certainly be thinking of your son's friend. What a waste. And what a feeling to have to wonder if anything could have stopped it.

[Captain Worley]

Dang, Cue. Sorry to hear that. Don't really know what to say.

[Lakal]

Oh, Cuey - I know you must be feeling dreadful - how sad. So sorry.

[SUSAN]

We got confirmation this morning that my son's best friend ODed on heroin yesterday and died. He was 22. All of his friends thought he had stopped using, but obviously not. Another friend found him yesterday afternoon.

He knew what he was doing and knew the risks from what I'm told. We don't know all the details and they don't really matter. This kid was at my house Tuesday evening, Wednesday my son saw him at a mutual friend's house, Thursday he was simply gone.

It's Friday and I feel like my heart and lungs have been cut out with a dull knife. All of the boy's friends are worse than that. They will be zombies for a few days.

I have been crying all day. I'll post again when I know more.

Send the kids some good thoughts if you have any to spare.
I am so sorry to hear this. I will be thinking of you and your family.

[Gator96]

I'm so sorry to hear this... If you, or your family need anything, I'm just up the road.

[Vindicator 1]

condolences to you guys. so sad, these kids don't know what they are up against.

[swampfox]

Vindicator, do you have any personal experience with picking up people who have overdosed? If you do I think we'd like to hear about them.

[TahoeT]

Aw sh*t, CB, that just totally sucks. I've known a few folks in my life who OD'd and it just boggles the mind. It truly sucks.

[better days]

Sorry about the loss Cue. I have a friend whom I have worked with off and on for over 25 years. He's a recovering addict of prescription meds, which are very easy to get on the street. I could write a book of the insane things he would do to acquire pain meds, after doctors caught on to that it's a little harder to do now but at our age he has surgeries to repair this or that like a shoulder or knee. These operations are needed at our advancing age but after 7 years he is back to dabbling again in pain meds. He also loves to work out at gyms. The last gym was commonly used by steroid abusers. He fell into that trap. Steroid users pump iron and exercise beyond good sense. After the pain becomes unbearable they take pain pills which are everywhere in this circle of people, then resume working out. It's a scary situation with a big muscled guy on the edge of insanity from roid rage. This is a problem that my friend gave up 7 years of working with his church's addict recovery group of which he was a counselor. I'm not a professional but the group also played a role it seems in an indirect way. The guilt seemed to break his spirit, pushing him further and further to a total melt down. My advice was quit all the helping others and save yourself, stop the gym and remember your family and others that care regardless of your problems. It's a dangerous game of just sometimes being yourself but there are no other choices so learn to live with-in your own skin.

[swampfox]

It scares me how many young people are taking steroids. At my last school I know that the football players were (unrealistic bulking up of muscle in a short time), and for gosh sakes surely the big league athletes doing it is probably having a negative effect on the kids.

I mean look at Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds. Among the best pitchers and hitters, respectively, in the history of the game before they ever took the steroids. Is it just being competitive that drives people to it?

I've read scientific articles that showed that the need to get high somehow is hardwired into our brainstems. We either succumb to it, in varying degrees, or we fight it. But it never goes away. Lately with all that's happened I would just about be in favor of providing the relatively mild drugs to the public if I thought it would keep them away from the really dangerous stuff. Methamphetamine, formerly known as crystal meth, is one of the worst ever. It can cause brain damage the first time, and every time. And the extacy can do the same, along with damging other organs (liver, kidneys, etc.). And it is so easy to get the stuff, largely as a result of the now 25-year-old War on Drugs. It is such a gigantic failure it has made the really dangerous drugs actually cheaper on the street than they were before. And now we find out that some of the really dangerous stuff is being easily smuggled across the Canadian border by Chinese gangs.

The "war on cigarettes" was a huge success in public health education, cutting the rate of adult use from around two-thirds to nearly one-fourth in just a few decades. Maybe if we treated the other drug use as public health problems instead of criminal problems we could make some progress. All we are accomplishing with the current laws being enforced is that it drives people out of sight just to avoid being caught, making them less likely to get treatment. Also, we are making the criminals rich, just the way we made the Mafia rich during Prohibition in the 20s supplying illegal alcohol.

We just can't always have everything we want.

[cuebald]

Many thanks to all of my friends for your warm thoughts and comments. We are all walking wounded still, and hoping this is simply a nightmare, even though we know it's real and there is nowhere to hide.

The funeral is tomorrow at eleven, but closure is going to take a long time. I'll start a new thread later today to talk about the overdose and would really love some input as to whether there is anything we can do to prevent any more occurrences.