Brainstorm to fix the education system

[Captain Worley]

I have a few ideas on things that need to get done to fix the education system. Feel free to post more or discuss.

1. Re-introduce shame. When someone does wrong, you might not have to resort to corporal punishment if you can make them feel bad about what they did.

2. Take away the video games. Johnny has no imagination and is physically unfit. Remember Red-Rover, Crack the Whip, Freeze Tag, or Colored Eggs? Great outside games. Play 'em.

3. Get the feds out of education!

4. Make Education a County function--not state.

5. Administrators, back your teachers. If they say Johnny is a problem, and the parents say the teacher is picking on him, here's a news flas: JOHNNY IS THE PROBLEM!

6. We need to get back to two parent families.

7. Schools should be standardized construction so the administartors don't try to 'out-architect' each other.

8. Start a serious Votech program, starting in middle school.

9. Get rid of Pact.

Any thoughts? Ideas? Something really needs to ghet overhauled in the education system, and my feeling is the elected officials are to busy/worried about getting re-0elected to do what needs to be done.

[Private Worley]

.......IN FAVOR OF WHITES. Put all negroes in their own skewls so that they cannot whine and complain about whitey and make endless excuses for their low IQs and criminal behavior and worthless "cultyah".

[Captain Worley]

.......IN FAVOR OF WHITES. Put all negroes in their own skewls so that they cannot whine and complain about whitey and make endless excuses for their low IQs and criminal behavior and worthless "cultyah".

A perfect example of what is wrong with the education system...

[I. B. Wright]

Get school administrators that have a backbone and are willing to stand up to these students.

Get parents to go back to discipline like their grandparents had. The only time out that was required was time to get the belt or the switch.

If your kid gets in trouble at school. make it where he or she is dreading to come home instead of "I can't wait to get home and tell soccer mommy, she will call the school and tell them how good I am".

Put the education back into the hand of the teachers and get it out of the hands of the coaches. All of you that have a brain know what I am talking about.

If a kid brings a weapon of any kind to school, don't send them home, don't call their parents, call the authorities, what they done was against the law.

I could go on and on but I won't. This is just one of my pet peeves. Our school administrators and the "modern day" parents are scared to death of their children.

I'm not perfect but I refuse to budge on my parenting skills. I had a neice that all she and her husband could do was complain about how they couldn't do "anything" with their oldest son. I told them point blank that they were wimps and were afraid of their own child. I told them to send him to live with me and mamaw for 1 month and they wouldn't know him. They did, it was a rough trip, he ran away twice, ran home, but at least mom and dad called me. I went and got him and he is now back home and is doing fine and has a whole new outlook on life. A lot of it was brought about by the "board of education". Parents, take control of your children if you can't then put them up for adoption.

[I. B. Wright]

Dang it man, I left out a very important one. Parents take these damn cell phones away from you kids, they do not need them. Make them use all of this time hitting the books and getting an education.

I have to tell this one. I ask my neighbor, whose 16 year old son has his own cell phone, why he allowed it. His answer and I quote " he makes his own money and pays for the phone himself, what can I do" end quote. My response and I quote " so, he lives in your house doesn't he. If he want to go out and but a gun with his "own" money is that ok" end quote. I never got an answer to this one but how many of you are the same way.

Parents, take control of your children, if you can't then put them up for adoption.

[Captain Worley]

Parents, take control of your children, if you can't then put them up for adoption.

What if the gov offered all parents to take their children and give them welfare payments in exchange for the kids? In return these so called 'parents' would have to submit to sterilization. The 'parents' who would be interested in this offer, probably wouldn't raise the kids worth a dang in the first place; the kids would, arguably, be in a better situation; and their 'parents' would not have any more neglected, unparented kids.

I know it sounds radical, maybe even awful, but something needs to be done.

[swampfox]

Draconian is probably the word, but sometimes I've wondered about the same thing myself.

But if the government took the kids, would they have control, or could they get it. See a lot of these behavior problems have their roots in things that should have been learned at a very early age (like between 6 months and 3 years), and it wasn't. And when that window of opportunity passes, it's gone.

I wish I knew a better answer.

[Captain Worley]

I was thinking of making the offer at age 1 at the latest for that very reason.

Draconian probably isn't the right word, because it would be their choice to do so. You are on the right track, though.

[Unregistere]

do not exist - lets live in a peretend world - wait a minute, thats what we have now. Inez has fixed everything - just keep doing it the Inez way - the demorat way - and keep getting the same results, morons. Whites score SAT = 1000 and blacks = 800.

[Captain Worley]

Wow! I made a 1140 on the SAT. That's better than white. What color am I?

[cuebald]

It has been my contention for a long time that children have to have a base of some type to build an education. Too many children are raised in households where there is no newspaper, no magazines, no books, and no one to take the time to even talk to them in complete sentences. Television, video games, and cell phones are not substitutes for building curiosity and teaching children to interact with society, but it unfortunately is what many parents furnish as babysitters in lieu of spending their time with their children. If a child has not learned basic conversational skills and fundamental responsibilities, and can at least recite his/her ABCs and count by the time they reach the classroom, they are already behind far enough that it is difficult for them to catch up.

If we can improve the parents, we can improve the children. Until we get bright enough to deal with this, we will continue to have problems with the children produced in these environments.

I have no problems with corporal punishment within reason, but you cannot correct neglect by brutalizing a child. There is a great difference between respect and fear. You can beat fear into a child; You must EARN their respect.

[Unregistere]

.... for blacks and 1000 for whites. Your color is irrelevant because in this case, black = negro and white = caucasian. Lakeesha, you and Tawana are dense, chile. Them PACT scoes are 85 for white and 62 for black.

[swampfox]

Monica, I think we all feel your pain. You'll never live down that cigar thing, so why not try to make it into something positive? A stop-smoking campaign or something.

I can see it working.

[swampfox]

Cuebald, All of that was very well-said and I agree 100%.

The only thing I can add, and it is a scary thing, is that in the current scientific understanding of child development there is a lot of the kinds of learning you describe (with surroundings and objects to stimulate curiosity, and those practices that build family and community ties) that MUST be learned during a certain age-span, way before school ever starts. There is an awful lot of learning that has to happen before the child is two years old, or else he/she will not be able to learn it later. I learned something about this through study, but I have also been able to watch it happening with children in my family. I have a nephew now that is two years old, and he is properly displaying ego-centric behavior that is almost identical to what I saw among my high-school students.

We are into more than one generation now in which that learning never occurred, so without some kind of major intervention, it will be a permanent condition. Nature is never proved wrong.

[better days]

I know with school beginning with 4 year olds it will show improvement possibly but parents still have the right and responsibility of how much government intrusion is allowed into the home. There is I'm sure mis-trust in government for what ever reasons that would prevent some parents of lower income from accepting help by loss of privacy from social workers hanging around and snooping. Faith based or community work and social centers would be a better angle.

[Captain Worley]

I really don't know what the solution is. I through the 'takew the kids away and give 'em money for them' as kind of a barb to get things rolling. Something needs to be done, and I have a feeling drastic measures are going to be needed. Swamp is right, we are at least 2 generations into kids not learning properly at an early age.

We need to brainstorm on this...seriously we do. Toss some ideas out, maybe the 'smart guys' we elected will pick something up.

BTW Monica, I looked at my old records and I made a 1240, not 1140. I'm whiter than white, right? I can practically waltz with the angels. How did you do on the SAT?

[Gator96]

Get school administrators that have a backbone and are willing to stand up to these students.

Get parents to go back to discipline like their grandparents had. The only time out that was required was time to get the belt or the switch.

If your kid gets in trouble at school. make it where he or she is dreading to come home instead of "I can't wait to get home and tell soccer mommy, she will call the school and tell them how good I am".

Put the education back into the hand of the teachers and get it out of the hands of the coaches. All of you that have a brain know what I am talking about.

If a kid brings a weapon of any kind to school, don't send them home, don't call their parents, call the authorities, what they done was against the law.

I could go on and on but I won't. This is just one of my pet peeves. Our school administrators and the "modern day" parents are scared to death of their children.

I'm not perfect but I refuse to budge on my parenting skills. I had a neice that all she and her husband could do was complain about how they couldn't do "anything" with their oldest son. I told them point blank that they were wimps and were afraid of their own child. I told them to send him to live with me and mamaw for 1 month and they wouldn't know him. They did, it was a rough trip, he ran away twice, ran home, but at least mom and dad called me. I went and got him and he is now back home and is doing fine and has a whole new outlook on life. A lot of it was brought about by the "board of education". Parents, take control of your children if you can't then put them up for adoption.


Amen to that.... parents AND administrators are too quick to side with unruly students. Parents, because their angel can do no wrong (and because the Adderall is so expensive, it had BETTER be working) and administrators, because of who the parents might be and because they have been stuck behind their desk in their plush office for so long, the have forgotten (much less ever really known) what the classroom was like.

Politics and education need to be totally separated, as in the case of church and state. The problem with politicians such as Inez, for example (but not only her) is that they're too busy trying to look good so they're NOT gonna dig in and get their hands dirty by doing some real work and reform. They're just there to smile for the camera and make excuses for sloppy work.

People are chanting for change. They want change. They need change. Now, I am not saying that Put Parents in Charge was a flawless plan, but it was CHANGE! Then, all of a sudden, where are all of these people groaning for change? They disappeared! It is unlikely that our educational system will ever change, unless we totally rebuild from the ground up.

I am not talking about rebuilding these humongous cathedral-like schools----build more schools, but make them smaller. Instead of having two-to-five neighborhoods share one HUGE school, break it down. Bring back the "little red school house".

You'll reduce class size. People will KNOW each other (which, inevitably will bring back the shame factor, when big brother is watching). It's kind of like the small-town theory. Everyone will KNOW what's going on at that school, and its business, and in that scenario (prayer, pledge of allegiance, administration flaws, little Johnny's problems, etc), that could be a very good thing. It'll increase competition between classes, students, and parents. I think it could be a good thing. Any ideas on this?

[swampfox]

Smaller schools is/are definitely a good idea. They have been shown to make a big difference in the places where the idea has been implemented. But we don't see that happening here. Before the gigantic $380 million bond referendum a couple of years ago in Richland One, they were promising a new high school in Eastover, in large part to make Lower Richland HS, the biggest in the district, smaller. After they got the money, they decided just to build a new auditorium at LR instead. While the problems there just get worse and worse.

The really scary thing is the large portion of a few generations of Americans now living who may NOT have a shot at learning the fundamentals of human behavior and interaction because they did not learn it at the right time.

Watching those looters in NO (the real ones, not the ones looking for food and water) reminded me a great deal of many of my HS students. When one of them got a job somewhere, for example, it was understood that his/her friends could come in and get free stuff. It was almost like there was some twisted principle involved wherein if you had a chance to steal it was wrong not to do so. And that's just with stealing. Violent crimes result in part from the same lack of development.

I hate to even contemplate what the real solution might be, because it is not going to be like anything that has ever been done, particularly in America. And it is possible that there might not be a solution beyond building more and more prisons to separate some of these people from society, permanently. And let's not forget that there are no racial or even class lines behind which someone is safe. Who needs to be separated from society more than those represented by our own Monica? And I've told the story here about how a friend of mine learned the hard way, when he moved to a nice part of Irmo, that there is a gang of white supremacist adolescents that functions pretty much like any other gang. Steals cars, sells drugs, the whole thing. (His son had been a straight-A student in West Columbia. After moving to Irmo, he worked his way into jail.) And there are many many communities of every ethnic description in which spending a certain amount of your life in prison is just considered to be natural, routine, literally an embarassment if not done.

Let's brainstorm, indeed, but keep in mind that any solutions that are likely to work are not going to make any of us feel good.

[Unregistere]

............SHE KNOW HOW TO FIXIT - YOU GO GIRL - AIN'T DAT WHAT okra winfrey say?

[cuebald]

When I was at LR many long years ago, it was a sleepy little country school with growing pains. We had no air conditioning, and if you were in one of the old classrooms facing Sumter Highway you opened the windows when hot weather came unless the wind was blowing in from Sam McGregor's Dairy. Nobody in the student body of a thousand or so died from these third-world conditions that I am aware.

We went to school every day and paid attention not because we were afraid of retaliation, but because we had had the expectation reinforced in us from the day we opened our eyes in the world that we would go to school and at least make an honest attempt at whatever we were handed to do, because life was the same as high school, only more so. We went to school and our parents went to work, and we saw them do it whether they wanted to or not, and we knew we couldn't slack off if they were working in order for us to be able to get an education. If we had not tried, we would have let ourselves down.

Today's kids have not lived through a term paper written after searching card files in a library for twenty-five sources to quote and footnote, nor have most ever seen a manual typewriter. Remember carbon paper? It was a lot of work, but it taught us how to work and to appreciate the results of hard work (which, by the way, can actually be fun).

How can we infuse a work ethic into kids who have no role models? This is really a toughie.

[swampfox]

That is a toughie. I know that a lot of my students there had never even seen an adult in their immediate community who make a decent living doing something legal. And the media 'role models' tend to be athletes and rap stars, people who get rich for playing a game or making anti-social """art""".

When I was in grad school (78-79) I did some substitute teaching for Richland One, and I can say that Lower Richland was by far the best high school in the district. It was orderly, clean, and the students expected to have work to do even when the regular teacher was absent.

Hopkins Middle School was maybe even better. I judged a science fair there around that time, and it was tough because all of the science projects were good. In fact the worst one was better than the best ones at Keenan and CA Johnson HIGH SCHOOLS, where I also judged.

It's amazing how quickly the schools in a community can go from very good to buried in the muck UNDER the toxic waste pond. I understand part of it, but even after seeing it firsthand for years, it still amazes me.

[cuebald]

You are absolutely correct, Swampfox, and the deterioration had nothing to do with integration. Black and white breadwinners both went to work every day and gave it their best shot, and expected of their children to be made proud. I was a sophomore when LR got its first taste of integration. Ernie Jackson was in my French class, and was one of the nicest guys in the school. I think we had four black students that year.

Ernie joined the football team, and was greased lightning when they handed him the ball. He was a hero in no time, and even the most steadfastly prejudiced respected him. ( I remember, my right hand, comments on the side lines by adults that Ernie must be an Indian. Truth was still a bit much to process in the late 60s).

Ernie went on to play with the New Orleans Saints. One of our white students from then is doing life at CCI for killing a fellow in a drug deal, cutting off his head and hands, and dumping the body in Wateree Swamp. What can we generalize from these things? Absolutely nothing, unless it is that anyone who is prejudiced because of a person's color is a flaming idiot. Race is incidental, the problems are social and cultural.

BTW, Swampie - I don't know what you taught, but you probably met my Aunt, who was the girl's coach and head of the Phys Ed department.

[swampfox]

Anybody with one or more of the five senses functioning can spend a short time, even in LRHS, and tell that race has nothing to do with it, at least on the part of the students. To come to any other conclusion means that that conclusion was embraced before they got there.

It is all of our children who are at risk in this child-toxic culture that we have allowed to develop, and they are all our children. The future of the country is at stake, but most people seem to be comfortable to let politics and prejudice get in the way of doing anything constructive.

Looking at the big picture, it is one scary situation.

I taught science. ALL of the science courses. I did know the Phys Ed dept. head and admired her very much. A fine teacher and a very nice person.

[Unregistere]

.....Teechurs like dat Tawana Swampfox! What's dat on yo skin, Tawana? or is it Bessie now?

[swampfox]

Monica is rapidly losing her ability to communicate at all. I suspect drug abuse, but psychiatric causes are also probable.

Let us have pity on this poor creature. She gave pretty much all she had (or so I've heard) for what she thought was her country, but it turned out just to be the president. Who knows what was going through her head at the time?

If somebody out there does know, it might be a good idea to keep it to yourself. But we can see the damage that was done.

[Unregistere]

....dose Two Kilt Dat Mailman? Every Day It Is Mo Of Yo Realtives In Da News, Tawana.....or Is It Bessie, Now? Where Beez Yo Al Sharpton? Tawana Just Loves Dark Crime On Newantion.org.

[Captain Worley]

Monica, you are rapidly deteriorating. Hell, you can't even spell newnation anymore. I suggest you head immediately to the nearest medical facility.

Go! Do it now!

Swamp and Cue, my aunt taught PE at LR before heading over to Hopkins Junior high. A bunch of my buddies went through there about the time Swamp was a sub. McGregor (I always thought he was the guy that was after Peter Rabbit) is selling the farm, if it hasn't been sold already. When I was a kid, I could climb the loquat tree next to my bedroom and see the blue silos on his farm. I kinda miss those days.

LR has a bunch of ex students in jail for murder, but I guess that's true of any of our supersized school.

[Unregistere]

Also, Tawana be on Martinlutherking.org - da troof about dat commie pervert liar! National holiday should be for O. J. Simpson instead of dat King Jr. O. J. beez da perfect representative of negroes.

[Captain Worley]

Also, Tawana be on Martinlutherking.org - da troof about dat commie pervert liar! National holiday should be for O. J. Simpson instead of dat King Jr. O. J. beez da perfect representative of negroes.

Honestly Monica. You do need some new material. You might google 'white supremicists' or 'posse comitatus' or something like that.

[Unregistred]

"victims" (looters) did Lakeesha take in from Nawlins? Lemme guess - same no. as tawana swampfox - zero.

[Captain Worley]

How about this idea? Not directly related to education, but it is peripheral.

Lets say we choose a date, say January 1, 2007. Nobody born after this date will be eligible for welfare. I think this will decrease the number of welfare babies, and encourage people born after that date to make the most of their education.

Whatcha'll think?

[LakeMurrayResident]

How about this idea? Not directly related to education, but it is peripheral.

Lets say we choose a date, say January 1, 2007. Nobody born after this date will be eligible for welfare. I think this will decrease the number of welfare babies, and encourage people born after that date to make the most of their education.

Whatcha'll think?

So, an infant born Jan 2 2007 to, let's say. a crack using Mother will not be able to obtain medical aid or anything else due to his/her date of birth? I have a problem with this as we are punishing an innocent child for something he/she had no control over - being born to incompetent parents.

[better days]

Govenment cannot handle relief for the poor I think because of political in fighting. Always trying to out do the other party or just plain incapable of handling anything effectivly. I would think charities stand a better chance, for example the Red Cross, with private donations plus government supplements. This way groups like the NAACP or other civic groups may contribute either monetarily or as case workers on an individual basis. Lets say the crack head mother with a child is given a budget figured by a case worker for a monthly income. Checks could be cut weekly along with drug testing with help given in case of a test positive. Just an idea.

[swampfox]

There is no chance that there will ever be relief for the poor, or reform of welfare, until there is reform of the way that medical care is accessed in our country. Just as most of us are moved to aid people who have been devastated by disasters, we are also not willing to allow children and the unable from obtaining the medical care that they need. How then, to save people from the slow death that is welfare if it means that children and the elderly will simultaneously experience the relatively quick deaths that follow disease and misfortune when doctors and hospitals are unavailable to them in the richest country in the world?

Yes, we should come up with a way to put the able-bodied and -minded to work, to be self-sufficient and to know the satisfaction that only self-sufficiency can bring. But no, we do not leave that road littered with the corpses of their children and grandparents.

Not if we're worth a damn.

I'm asking.

[Captain Worley]

So, an infant born Jan 2 2007 to, let's say. a crack using Mother will not be able to obtain medical aid or anything else due to his/her date of birth? I have a problem with this as we are punishing an innocent child for something he/she had no control over - being born to incompetent parents.

Well, that's kinda what we are doing now. The system as it currently works is churning out an exponentially growing number of welfare recipients and those who need government aid to survive. Soon, the burden will be too much for the working taxpayers to support and the systemwill come crashing down.

Something needs to be done. I'm just tossing out thoughts, hoping people will start to think outside the box. We need to look at LEAST 25 years down the road.

[better days]

I agree 100% Captain, the only thing is every idea thrown out there seems to be knocked down with hypothetical B.S. that currently enough is not being given already, it's always has got to be more, more, more. The health care issue seems to be the problem I guess, alto I haven't seen the road side littered with corpses at the rate we're going the only corpses will be taxpayers who could not afford health insurance as the only ones with health insurance will be the poor.

[swampfox]

Excellent point, BD.

I think that most people here are still not aware that the way we distribute health care is almost unique in the world. Of the advanced countries (those with convenience stores and McDonald's and home shopping networks) only we and the Republic of South Africa do NOT have socialized medicine, as well as no-cost-to-you university education and a decent retirement pension. In some of those countries you pay more taxes, but not a lot more, and look at the things you don't have to spend money for. No health insurance, no saving for college, no saving for retirement unless you want to.

But we were talking about welfare reform. The reason it failed last time had a lot to do with health care. Those welfare recipients who went out and got jobs, they were generally jobs without health insurance, or at least not for the family. So you're doing your minimum wage job and your kid gets sick. What do you do? Only thing to do is to go back on welfare.

We can't reform welfare until we reform health care.

[better days]

Swamp I'm thinking you are correct, alto of course none of our ideas mean anything as far as getting something done it's still worth the effort to discuss such things. Have you seen the articule about flat fee health care? Pay $500 per year, unlimited office visits. Now if that idea is combined with work matching funds for example like how employers match up to a certain limit in mutal funds, instead people of a certain lower income work and the government would match a percent of earned income for health care for that type of medical plan, opt out and the government matchs at a higher percent with the individual becoming responsible for their own health plan.

[swampfox]

I read the article on MSNBC about the clinic in Georgia that charges $500 per year. I think that if a person is on their own, with no dependents, it might be a good deal, but if it means no coverage when you need a specialist, or a stay in the hospital, then it means taking a big chance. I don't see my regular primary doctor enough in one year to be worth $500, but I know some do. But if you have a family of four, that would be $2000 per year extra, on top of whatever insurance they have, just for convenience, and this seems to be the cheapest of all such flat-fee clinics.

No, I think we need to go all the way. First we need to do something that seems out of the question on most issues, and that is to look at all of the countries in the world and see how their systems work, then take the best of their ideas, improve them, and put it to work. I have talked with people from such countries as Canada and Austria about their health care system, and they all seem to love it. And here's one thing they don't tell you: In almost all of those countries there are still private doctors and hospitals if somebody can and wants to pay for them. There is even private insurance.

It seems to me that we could look around and see that almost all of the countries in the world see health care as a right which the government provides for the citizens. It's not such a strange concept. And under the system that we have, who do you think is paying for those who cannot pay anyway? Besides what we pay in taxes for people who cannot pay, the hospitals have to charge paying patients more to cover patients who cannot pay; one-third of our hospital bills are for indigent care. And I've read that another one-third is to pay for the process in which hospitals argue with the insurance companies about who will pay what.

So, if the government would do something completely out of character and set up a system that works, we should actually save a good bit of money by having completely socialized medicine.

[cuebald]

bump

[JDidGirl]

Cue, I'm guessing you are tired of the same old conversations going on here so you are just going to try to breath life back into the old ones?

[cuebald]

Nah. Sarge asked what the racism level was on this board many long years ago, before registration was required.

I bumped a couple of threads rather than try to explain all that.

The Newnation thread was my favorite. We had a lot of fun with that one.

[swampfox]

There is only one way to start fixing the schools. Get the gangbangers and other constantly disruptive students out of them permanently. That would require school boards, politicians, and the public to hire administrators who will do their jobs and then let them do their jobs.

I got so tired of hearing that it (the violence) was a cultural thing that I wouldn't understand. BS.

Most people don't realize that an awful lot of students get to the ninth grade already planning to drop out as soon as they reach the legal age (16, which most student reach sometime during their tenth grade year). The reason being that they didn't learn anything at all in grades 1-8, including how to read, so high school courses might as well have been taught in Chinese as far as they were concerned. Remedial courses? Would do a lot of good, but that's another thing that school administrators will not have more than at absolute minimum levels because 1) the superintendents and school boards, etc, would hassle THEM about it, and 2) the courses might have to be classified as special education, in which case the parents would have to sign for the kids to be in them, which they usually would not. (An interesting exception: Some parents insisted that their students be placed in special education, even some very bright kids, because federal law limits the amount of discipline, including days of suspension, that can be imposed upon special ed kids. The last thing these parents want is to have their kids at home more than necessary. You should have seen the angry parents at the front door of the school every time we had a school holiday.)

There are some schools that work. Like the one where that principal named Perry who is frequently on CNN works. And that academy in Harlem in NYC where 100% of the students graduate from college. It seems to me, when you see somebody else whose program is working, you copy it until you come up with something better. I don't know what it is about our character as a nation that does not seem to want to do that in a lot of areas.

[JDidGirl]

Swampy... I completely agree with your post.

I have a question for you though. What do you think of home schooling or these new online school courses that some areas are offering? I personally have mixed emotions about it. I think a kid learns a lot by physically going to school... and not just what is taught in class. They learn how to socialize and interact with their peers (granted, maybe a little too much). They also (should) learn that there are other authority figures than their parents and that they have to follow rules. However, with the way things are now... and how rough some schools have gotten... I'm starting to wonder if the bad outweighs the good these days and maybe online computer courses are the way to go. Thoughts?

[Lakal]

Some of the young people I've worked with felt that they had to join a gang - threats were made against their families if they refused. Years ago the Columbia PD stated there were no gangs. At that time I knew otherwise but no one wanted to know. Both Lexington and Richland County gang unit officers have told me it's almost impossibel to get a person out of a gang safely without severe repercussions. Even leaving the state for another one doesn't guarantee safety for the ex-gang member.

It's a mess.

[JDidGirl]

Some of the young people I've worked with felt that they had to join a gang - threats were made against their families if they refused. Years ago the Columbia PD stated there were no gangs. At that time I knew otherwise but no one wanted to know. Both Lexington and Richland County gang unit officers have told me it's almost impossibel to get a person out of a gang safely without severe repercussions. Even leaving the state for another one doesn't guarantee safety for the ex-gang member.

It's a mess.

The gang situation is a horrible mess and it is a much bigger problem then a lot of folks want to believe or admit. Now joining a gang isn't so much even for safety reasons (though it might still be in some cases) as it is a status symbol type deal. It's true... these gang bangers are as bad as (or worse in some cases) as terrorist groups.

[swampfox]

The gangs ARE terrorist groups, and should be treated as such.

Home schooling can be good if the parent is capable. Unfortunately most of the time, in my experience, they are not. What the kid gains in security he/she loses in competent instruction. Of course thanks to the violence in school that the administrators won't do anything about the instruction suffers there too.

Most of the time home-schooling parents, particularly beyond the earliest grades, just expect their kids to learn everything out of books with little or no help. And what books! I have personally worked with a number of home-schooling kids whose parents (wisely) decided they needed extra help, and the books and other materials they had bought for their kids (at sky-high prices) were almost invariably from religion-based suppliers and were virtually worthless.

So, if a parent has the ability to facilitate learning and makes wise use of materials and consults professionals when needed it can be a good thing, but as things stand most of the time it is not.

As for the online classes, again those can be very good if the parent chooses wisely. I personally think that this is probably the future of public education in our country, as the public schools are mostly too broke to fix. I wrote the content for an online course in genetics several years ago, which did very well, but for some reason it sold better in other countries than it did here.

And I completely agree that physically going to a school with other kids is very important, but not under the circumstances one usually finds these days. A friend of mine's kid fell in with the "wrong crowd" when they moved into what most people around here think of as a very good school district (Irmo). I do not believe that he would have taken up the habits and lifestyle that he did if it had not been for that social group. We buried him the day before Christmas last December.

I think that charter schools could be a huge solution to many of our problems if they were allowed to grow and prosper. As it is you have to have permission from the SC Dept of Education AND the local school district in order to start and maintain one, and they are very resistant to grant that permission. Charter schools have a lot going for them. They are usually run by very good teachers. They attract very good teachers, who get to keep their state benefits (unlike at private schools, even Heathwood and Hammond where the pay is about half), and they are free from politically minded administrators. PLUS, nobody is "entitled" to be a student there. Any thugs that get in can be sent away permanently right away.

If we could only change one thing, I would get rid of the thugs. Most districts have "alternative schools" for them, but they generally don't stay there nearly long enough.

And for the time being, Parents! You have all the power! If you go to an administrator or to a school board meeting, well-prepared, and simply ask why is it necessary for your kid to have his/her learning opportunities compromised by habitual thugs and DON'T BACK DOWN, it might be amazing what you could accomplish.

[Cliff]

Good post Swamp

[RPWeed]

I agree...good stuff.

[Captain Worley]

He's got some really good stuff on the education system if you go searching through the archives, he oughta write a book.

[swampfox]

Thanks, folks. See, there's no way that we could disagree on everything.

[swampfox]

And Lakal, I understand the violent pressure that is put on kids to join gangs. I give thanks every day that I am not a teenager in these times. But we need to make it a great big priority, sweeping every neighborhood, every rural area, every empty lot, every school, absolutely every hiding place until there are no hiding places. Then save the ones that can be saved. The others I would commend to a higher power, not because that's what I want, but because that's all there is. There is no right to make victims out of the innocent, and compassion does not require that we offer ourselves up as victims while somebody else gets their stuff together. That is my belief, having been on the very front lines. I know you've been there too.

[Cliff]

Thanks, folks. See, there's no way that we could disagree on everything.
It seems we try.


The others I would commend to a higher power,
O M G ~
The death penalty? Now we agree even more.
I can't take it. What will you agree to next? The death penalty for drug dealers and violent criminals?

[swampfox]

I didn't mean the death penalty. I meant turning over their cases to somebody who could figure them out.

I am generally not in favor of the death penalty, as long as life without parole means exactly what it says.

From what I've seen of adult prison, though, life without parole is not something I'd be real happy about if it was me. I think I'd choose the needle if I could. But none of us knows what we would choose unless and until we got there for real. A good reason to behave in a civil manner.

[Cliff]

I didn't mean the death penalty.

Wooo~ I almost had a heart attack. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p47/KE4MIV/Smilies/tounge.gif

[swampfox]

If it will help your heart in any way, I am in favor of life without parole for almost all repeat violent offenders, and many first-timers, unless there are some very unusual circumstances to consider.

[Cliff]

I feel much better now. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p47/KE4MIV/Smilies/Thanksbow.gif